--- title: "Meaning & Key Takeaway of: Before we can hope to understand the…" description: "\"“Before we can hope to understand the Fathers, or rightly to estimate the force of the testimony they bear to Universalism, we must try to place oursel..." image: "https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/a2c/thomas-allin-42277_hope_before-we-can-hope-to-understand-the-fat_1448205.jpg" --- # Before we can hope to understand the Fathers, or rightly… ![“Before we can hope to understand the Fathers, or rightly to estimate the force of the testimony they bear to Universalism, we must try to place ourselves mentally where they stood. The Church was born into a world of whose moral rottenness few have, or can have, any idea. Even the sober historians…” quote by Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/a2c/thomas-allin-42277_hope_before-we-can-hope-to-understand-the-fat_1448205.jpg) [Download](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/a2c/thomas-allin-42277_hope_before-we-can-hope-to-understand-the-fat_1448205.jpg) [Open image](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/a2c/thomas-allin-42277_hope_before-we-can-hope-to-understand-the-fat_1448205.jpg) > ““Before we can hope to understand the Fathers, or rightly to estimate the force of the testimony they bear to Universalism, we must try to place ourselves mentally where they stood. The Church was born into a world of whose moral rottenness few have, or can have, any idea. Even the sober historians of the later Roman empire have their pages tainted with scenes impossible to translate. Lusts the foulest, debauchery to us happily inconceivable, raged on every side. To assert even faintly the final redemption of all this rottenness, whose depths we dare not try to sound, required the firmest faith in the larger hope, as an essential part of the Gospel. But this is not all: in a peculiar sense the Church was militant in the early centuries. It was engaged in, at times, and always liable to, a struggle, for life or death, with a relentless persecution. Thus it must have seemed in that age almost an act of treason to the Cross to teach that, though dying unrepentant, the bitter persecutor, or the votary of abominab le lusts, should yet in the ages to come find salvation. Such considerations help us to see the extreme weight attaching even to the very least expression in the Fathers, which involves sympathy with the larger hope, -a fact to be kept in mind in reading these pages. Especially so when we consider that the idea of mercy was then but little known; (and that truth, as we conceive it, was not then esteemed a duty.)”” [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) ## About This Quote This interpretation was drafted with AI assistance. It is one reading of the quote, not the author's own explanation. Understanding early Church fathers requires placing ourselves in their morally corrupt world and recognizing their militant, persecuted context, which shaped their hopeful theology of universal salvation. **In simple terms:** We must see early Christian writings in their harsh historical setting. Key Takeaway Recognize historical context when interpreting theological claims. Themes theology history persecution hope interpretation Mood reflective serious Type theoretical historical When to use this quote - academic study - sermon preparation - interfaith dialogue - historical analysis Key Concepts Universalism militant church historical context Questions to Reflect On - How does context alter theological meaning? - What modern parallels exist for early Church challenges? A Different Perspective The quote may overgeneralize the moral state of the era, ignoring nuanced societal variations. ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ No ratings yet [Hope](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/hope/) [Life or death](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/life-or-death/) [Persecution](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/persecution/) [Universalism](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/universalism/) ## Related quotes > [Italy is the home of art and swindling; home of religion and moral rottenness](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/mark-twain/italy-is-the-home-of-art-and-swindling-home-of-religion-and-moral/) [Mark Twain](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/mark-twain/) > [Universalism, fashionable as it is today, is incompatible with the teaching of Christ and His apostles, and is a deadly enemy of evangelism. The…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/john-stott/universalism-fashionable-as-it-is-today-is-incompatible-with-the/) [John Stott](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/john-stott/) > [“In the individualistic austerity there always exists an ‘ego’. But in universalism everybody is same and one. Everybody is suitable and has the birthright…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/sri-jibankrishna-or-diamond/in-the-individualistic-austerity-there-always-exists-an-ego-but-in/) Sri Jibankrishna or Diamond > [Real success is found in radical sacrifice. Ultimate satisfaction is found not in making much of ourselves but in making much of God. The…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/david-platt/real-success-is-found-in-radical-sacrifice-ultimate-satisfaction-is/) [David Platt](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/david-platt/) > [“Not all paths lead to God, but God can lead any path to himself. This God will dine with anyone.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/ricky-maye/not-all-paths-lead-to-god-but-god-can-lead-any-path-to-himself-this/) [Ricky Maye](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/ricky-maye/) > [We believe that an individual must endeavor to assume the universalism inherent in the human condition.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/frantz-fanon/we-believe-that-an-individual-must-endeavor-to-assume-the/) [Frantz Fanon](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/frantz-fanon/) > [Adam Smith's was a real universalism in intent. Laissez Faire was intended to establish a world community as well as a natural harmony of…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/reinhold-niebuhr/adam-smith-s-was-a-real-universalism-in-intent-laissez-faire-was/) [Reinhold Niebuhr](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/reinhold-niebuhr/) > [ Tony \[Campolo\] and I might disagree on the details, but I think we are both trying to find an alternative to both traditional Universalism… ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/brian-d-mclaren/tony-campolo-and-i-might-disagree-on-the-details-but-i-think-we-are/) [Brian D. McLaren](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/brian-d-mclaren/) > [“There is a feeling of deep universalism, in the wake of the splendid words of Democritus: “To a wise man, the whole earth is…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/carlo-rovelli/there-is-a-feeling-of-deep-universalism-in-the-wake-of-the-splendid/) [Carlo Rovelli](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/carlo-rovelli/) > [“Like the United States, China thought of itself as playing a special role. But it never espoused the American notion of universalism to spread…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/henry-kissinger/like-the-united-states-china-thought-of-itself-as-playing-a-special/) [Henry Kissinger](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/henry-kissinger/) > [I don’t believe in universalism, but I do believe in Jesus Christ, the reconciler of all](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/karl-barth/i-don-t-believe-in-universalism-but-i-do-believe-in-jesus-christ-the/) [Karl Barth](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/karl-barth/) > [“Being Jewish did not compromise the humanitarian and universalist ideals of my close relatives who, having experienced persecution close hand, were more concerned with…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/daniel-waterman/being-jewish-did-not-compromise-the-humanitarian-and-universalist/) [Daniel Waterman](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/daniel-waterman/) > [The alternative of hypothetical universalism, according to which Christ's work is sufficient for all but efficient only for the elect, was alive and well…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/oliver-d-crisp/the-alternative-of-hypothetical-universalism-according-to-which/) [Oliver D. Crisp](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/oliver-d-crisp/) > [“I'm not one of those pious types who spend their whole lives hunched on prayer rugs while their eyes and hearts remain closed to…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/elif-shafak/i-m-not-one-of-those-pious-types-who-spend-their-whole-lives-hunched/) [Elif Shafak](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/elif-shafak/) > [The EU Constitution is something new in human history. Though it is not as eloquent as the French and U.S. constitutions, it is the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/jeremy-rifkin/the-eu-constitution-is-something-new-in-human-history-though-it-is/) [Jeremy Rifkin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/jeremy-rifkin/) ## More by Thomas Allin > [“Am I then to believe that the same God Who expends millions of years in slowly fitting this earth for man's habitation, will only…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/am-i-then-to-believe-that-the-same-god-who-expends-millions-of-years/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“If God be unchangeable, then what we see-of Him at any moment, must be true of Him at every moment of time; true of…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/if-god-be-unchangeable-then-what-we-see-of-him-at-any-moment-must-be/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“-This plea contradicts itself; for to assert that because of man's freedom he can go on for ever choosing evil, is, in fact, to…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/this-plea-contradicts-itself-for-to-assert-that-because-of-man-s/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“Suppose it were offered to the father of three children to take his choice whether two should be received into heaven and one condemned…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/suppose-it-were-offered-to-the-father-of-three-children-to-take-his/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“Pressed by the irresistible weight of these arguments many take refuge in ambiguous and evasive phrases, e.g., "Be sure God will do the best…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/pressed-by-the-irresistible-weight-of-these-arguments-many-take/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“And this brings us face to face with a blunder of our traditional creed, which is radical. It talks of God's love as though…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/and-this-brings-us-face-to-face-with-a-blunder-of-our-traditional/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“If it is said, that there maybe some infinite evil in sin, that, even if true (which nobody knows and Scripture nowhere teaches), does…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/if-it-is-said-that-there-maybe-some-infinite-evil-in-sin-that-even-if/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“But in fact the traditional creed knows nothing of what love really is. For love is simply the strongest thing in the universe, the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/but-in-fact-the-traditional-creed-knows-nothing-of-what-love-really/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) > [“(1.) --No one can deny that the New Testament contains a special revelation of the parental tie uniting us to God. When we pray…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-allin/1-no-one-can-deny-that-the-new-testament-contains-a-special/) [Thomas Allin](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) [Explore all 10 Thomas Allin quotes ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-allin/) ## More Hope quotes > [Of all the people who have affected my life and influenced the choices I've made, none has been more important than my father. I…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/teddy-atlas/of-all-the-people-who-have-affected-my-life-and-influenced-the/) [Teddy Atlas](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/teddy-atlas/) > [“Cine a ucis stelele? Cine a surpat drumul spre viitor al celor din morminte?”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/ionel-teodoreanu/cine-a-ucis-stelele-cine-a-surpat-drumul-spre-viitor-al-celor-din/) [Ionel Teodoreanu](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/ionel-teodoreanu/) > [“What can we do in any hardship? We can hope with prayerful praise.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/lailah-gifty-akita/what-can-we-do-in-any-hardship-we-can-hope-with-prayerful-praise/) [Lailah Gifty Akita](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/lailah-gifty-akita/) > [I hope I continue to evolve.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/charlotte-flair/i-hope-i-continue-to-evolve/) [Charlotte Flair](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/charlotte-flair/) > [If one truly has lost hope, one would not be on hand to say so.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/eric-bentley/if-one-truly-has-lost-hope-one-would-not-be-on-hand-to-say-so/) [Eric Bentley](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/eric-bentley/) > [“too—I realized that my only hope was to give up the life that had been, in order to make room for the life that…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/elizabeth-lesser/too-i-realized-that-my-only-hope-was-to-give-up-the-life-that-had/) [Elizabeth Lesser](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/elizabeth-lesser/) > [You practice mindfulness, on the one hand, to be calm and peaceful. On the other hand, as you practice mindfulness and live a life…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/anonymous/you-practice-mindfulness-on-the-one-hand-to-be-calm-and-peaceful-on/) [Anonymous](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/anonymous/) > [Stop trying to give me hope ... I have no room left for it.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/jenn-f/stop-trying-to-give-me-hope-i-have-no-room-left-for-it/) [Jenn F](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/jenn-f/) > [If there is any period one would desire to be born in, is it not the age of Revolution; when the old and the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/ralph-waldo-emerson/if-there-is-any-period-one-would-desire-to-be-born-in-is-it-not-the/) [Ralph Waldo Emerson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/ralph-waldo-emerson/) > [Give me love, give me peace on earth, give me light, give me life, keep me free from birth, give me hope, help me…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/anonymous/give-me-love-give-me-peace-on-earth-give-me-light-give-me-life-keep/) [Anonymous](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/anonymous/) > [Pray, hope, don't worry.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/pio-of-pietrelcina/pray-hope-don-t-worry/) [Pio of Pietrelcina](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/pio-of-pietrelcina/) > [Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/phillips-brooks/do-not-pray-for-tasks-equal-to-your-powers-pray-for-powers-equal-to/) [Phillips Brooks](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/phillips-brooks/) > [I am at a point in my life where everything I have worked for starts to look like a burden, a weight on my…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/simone-abou-samra/i-am-at-a-point-in-my-life-where-everything-i-have-worked-for-starts/) Simone Abou Samra > [Im really happy that I met you I hope you know that](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/im-nothing/im-really-happy-that-i-met-you-i-hope-you-know-that/) Im Nothing > [All that I am or ever hope to be, I owe to my angel Mother.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/abraham-lincoln/all-that-i-am-or-ever-hope-to-be-i-owe-to-my-angel-mother/) [Abraham Lincoln](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/abraham-lincoln/) [Browse all 24,868 Hope quotes ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/hope/) ```json { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@graph": [ { "@type": "Quotation", "text": "“Before we can hope to understand the Fathers, or rightly to estimate the force of the testimony they bear to Universalism, we must try to place ourselves mentally where they stood. 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