--- title: "Meaning & Key Takeaway of: Socrates, in Plato, formulates ideas of…" description: "\"Socrates, in Plato, formulates ideas of order: the Iliad, like Shakespeare, knows that a violent disorder is a great order.\" — Harold Bloom" image: "https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/8ff/harold-bloom-3350_disorder_socrates-in-plato-formulates-ideas-of-or_2610237.png" --- # Socrates, in Plato, formulates ideas of order: the Iliad… ![“Socrates, in Plato, formulates ideas of order: the Iliad, like Shakespeare, knows that a violent disorder is a great order.” quote by Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/8ff/harold-bloom-3350_disorder_socrates-in-plato-formulates-ideas-of-or_2610237.png) [Download](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/8ff/harold-bloom-3350_disorder_socrates-in-plato-formulates-ideas-of-or_2610237.png) [Open image](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/8ff/harold-bloom-3350_disorder_socrates-in-plato-formulates-ideas-of-or_2610237.png) > “Socrates, in Plato, formulates ideas of order: the Iliad, like Shakespeare, knows that a violent disorder is a great order.” [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) ## About This Quote This interpretation was drafted with AI assistance. It is one reading of the quote, not the author's own explanation. Bloom interprets Plato’s Socrates as suggesting that chaos can be a form of order, similar to epic literature and drama **In simple terms:** Disorder can be seen as a hidden structure, like in classic works Key Takeaway Consider that apparent chaos may conceal deeper patterns Themes literature philosophy order chaos Mood thoughtful analytical Type critical philosophical When to use this quote - analysis of texts - creative writing - critical thinking - philosophical debate Key Concepts structuralism aesthetic theory classical references Questions to Reflect On - What examples show disorder as creative order? - How does this view influence interpretation of modern narratives? A Different Perspective The claim may overgeneralize complex literary dynamics ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ No ratings yet [Disorder](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/disorder/) [Ideas](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/ideas/) [Iliad](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/iliad/) [Order](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/order/) [Order Iliad](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/order-iliad-2020435/) [Plato](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/plato/) [Plato Formulates](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/plato-formulates-2020434/) [Socrates](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/socrates/) [Socrates Plato](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/socrates-plato-720777/) [Violent](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/violent/) ## Related quotes > [“Socrates: Have you noticed on our journey how often the citizens of this new land remind each other it is a free country? Plato:…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/anonymous/socrates-have-you-noticed-on-our-journey-how-often-the-citizens-of/) [Anonymous](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/anonymous/) > [Socrates and Plato are right: whatever man does he always does well, that is, he does that which seems to him good (useful) according…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/friedrich-nietzsche/socrates-and-plato-are-right-whatever-man-does-he-always-does-well/) [Friedrich Nietzsche](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/friedrich-nietzsche/) > [Since Socrates and Plato first speculated on the nature of the human mind, serious thinkers through the ages - from Aristotle to Descartes, from…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/eric-kandel/since-socrates-and-plato-first-speculated-on-the-nature-of-the-human/) [Eric Kandel](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/eric-kandel/) > [“We were like children after larks, always on the point of catching the art, which was always getting away from us.… At last we…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/mark-a-flynn/we-were-like-children-after-larks-always-on-the-point-of-catching-the/) [Mark A. Flynn](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/mark-a-flynn/) > [“The Apology (of Socrates) is Plato's version of the speech given by Socrates as he defends himself against the charges of being a man…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/voltaire/the-apology-of-socrates-is-plato-s-version-of-the-speech-given-by/) [Voltaire](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/voltaire/) > [“How often when they find a sage As sweet as Socrates or Plato They hand him hemlock for his wage Or bake him like…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/don-marquis/how-often-when-they-find-a-sage-as-sweet-as-socrates-or-plato-they/) [Don Marquis](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/don-marquis/) > [I wonder if Socrates and Plato took a house on Crete during the summer.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/woody-allen/i-wonder-if-socrates-and-plato-took-a-house-on-crete-during-the-summer/) [Woody Allen](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/woody-allen/) > [“If I am in love, many things about the world, not just the immediate object of my love, seem lovable. 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Lewis](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/c-s-lewis-2/) > [“Even now I'm well aware that if I allowed myself to listen to him I couldn't resist but would have the same experience again.…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/plato/even-now-i-m-well-aware-that-if-i-allowed-myself-to-listen-to-him-i/) [Plato](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/plato/) > [“But Socrates did not did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/mara-bar-serapion/but-socrates-did-not-did-not-die-for-good-he-lived-on-in-the-teaching/) [Mara Bar-Serapion](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/mara-bar-serapion/) > [Gardening is the handiest excuse for being a philosopher. Nobody guesses, nobody accuses, nobody knows, but there you are, Plato in the peonies, Socrates…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/ray-bradbury/gardening-is-the-handiest-excuse-for-being-a-philosopher-nobody/) [Ray Bradbury](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/ray-bradbury/) > [Plato, the first true pope of philosophy (sorry, Socrates), argued for a World of Forms above the reality-a transcendent plane of perfect essences, pure…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/n-d-wilson/plato-the-first-true-pope-of-philosophy-sorry-socrates-argued-for-a/) [N.D. Wilson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/n-d-wilson/) ## More by Harold Bloom > [I realized early on that the academy and the literary world alike - and I don't think there really is a distinction between the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/i-realized-early-on-that-the-academy-and-the-literary-world-alike-and/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [I would say that there is no future for literary studies as such in the United States.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/i-would-say-that-there-is-no-future-for-literary-studies-as-such-in/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [“Brecht was a cynical bohemian bogey of the middle classes, but also much more than a mere provocateur. He developed and dramatized his political…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/brecht-was-a-cynical-bohemian-bogey-of-the-middle-classes-but-also/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [The morality of scholarship, as currently practiced, is to encourage everyone to replace difficult pleasures by pleasures universally accessible precisely because they are easier.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/the-morality-of-scholarship-as-currently-practiced-is-to-encourage/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [Dark influences from the American past congregate among us still. If we are a democracy, what are we to make of the palpable elements…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/dark-influences-from-the-american-past-congregate-among-us-still-if/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [“We read frequently if unknowingly, in quest of a mind more original than our own.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/we-read-frequently-if-unknowingly-in-quest-of-a-mind-more-original/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [“You can read merely to pass the time, or you can read with an overt urgency, but eventually you will read against the clock.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/you-can-read-merely-to-pass-the-time-or-you-can-read-with-an-overt/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [In the finest critics one hears the full cry of the human. They tell one why it matters to read.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/in-the-finest-critics-one-hears-the-full-cry-of-the-human-they-tell/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [The idea of Herman Melville in a writing class is always distressing to me.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/the-idea-of-herman-melville-in-a-writing-class-is-always-distressing/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [If I were to sum up the negative reactions to my work, I think there are two primary causes: one is that if there…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/if-i-were-to-sum-up-the-negative-reactions-to-my-work-i-think-there/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [Aesthetic value emanates from the struggle between texts: in the reader, in language, in the classroom, in arguments within a society. Aesthetic value rises…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/aesthetic-value-emanates-from-the-struggle-between-texts-in-the/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [Shakespeare will not make us better, and he will not make us worse, but he may teach us how to overhear ourselves when we…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/shakespeare-will-not-make-us-better-and-he-will-not-make-us-worse-but/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [Criticism starts - it has to start - with a real passion for reading. It can come in adolescence, even in your twenties, but…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/criticism-starts-it-has-to-start-with-a-real-passion-for-reading-it/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [“No one has yet managed to be post-Shakespearean.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/no-one-has-yet-managed-to-be-post-shakespearean/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) > [What is supposed to be the very essence of Judaism - which is the notion that it is by study that you make yourself…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/harold-bloom/what-is-supposed-to-be-the-very-essence-of-judaism-which-is-the/) [Harold Bloom](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) [Explore all 127 Harold Bloom quotes ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/harold-bloom/) ## More Disorder quotes > [There is a nationwide shortage of drugs for Attention Deficit Disorder. The FDA says they're not sure how it happened. I guess somebody wasn't…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/jay-leno/there-is-a-nationwide-shortage-of-drugs-for-attention-deficit/) [Jay Leno](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/jay-leno/) > [Sometimes labeling is only useful, like with OCD. Once you're labeled you can be treated. On other occasions labeling leads to tyranny, like with…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/jon-ronson/sometimes-labeling-is-only-useful-like-with-ocd-once-you-re-labeled/) [Jon Ronson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/jon-ronson/) > [Having an eating disorder doesn't show ‘strength.’ Strength is when are able to overcome your demons after being sick and tired for so long.…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/demi-lovato/having-an-eating-disorder-doesn-t-show-strength-strength-is-when-are/) [Demi Lovato](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/demi-lovato/) > [Metaphor isn't just a fancy turn of speech. It shapes our thoughts and feelings, reaches out to grasp new experience, and even binds our…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/james-richardson/metaphor-isn-t-just-a-fancy-turn-of-speech-it-shapes-our-thoughts-and/) [James Richardson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/james-richardson/) > [love is a mental illness, an obsessive-compulsive disorder romanticized!](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/eric-jerome-dickey/love-is-a-mental-illness-an-obsessive-compulsive-disorder-romanticized/) [Eric Jerome Dickey](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/eric-jerome-dickey/) > [What you call disorder is nothing else than one of the laws of the order you comprehend not and which you have erroneously named…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/marquis-de-sade/what-you-call-disorder-is-nothing-else-than-one-of-the-laws-of-the/) [Marquis de Sade](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/marquis-de-sade/) > [“The word is dissociate. There is no 'a' before the 'ss'. People invariably say dis-a-ssociate, which, if you're suffering Disso-ciative Identity Disorder/Multiple Personality Disorder,…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/alice-jamieson/the-word-is-dissociate-there-is-no-a-before-the-ss-people-invariably/) [Alice Jamieson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/alice-jamieson/) > [Disorder in the society is the result of disorder in the family.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/elizabeth-ann-seton/disorder-in-the-society-is-the-result-of-disorder-in-the-family/) [Elizabeth Ann Seton](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/elizabeth-ann-seton/) > [If you're spending so much time at the gym that your mail is forwarded there, you're not dedicated - you've got a mental disorder.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/dan-john/if-you-re-spending-so-much-time-at-the-gym-that-your-mail-is/) [Dan John](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/dan-john/) > [“although those who exhibit structural division of the personality commonly exhibit altered states of consciousness, only relatively few individuals who experience altered states of…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/paul-frewen/although-those-who-exhibit-structural-division-of-the-personality/) [Paul Frewen](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/paul-frewen/) > [We study health, and we deliberate upon our meats and drink and air and exercises, and we hew and we polish every stone that…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/john-donne/we-study-health-and-we-deliberate-upon-our-meats-and-drink-and-air/) [John Donne](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/john-donne/) > [Begbie offers an additional valuable contribution by rejecting the traditional emphasis on beauty, in its Platonic sense, and instead suggesting that beauty be reconceived…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/john-walford/begbie-offers-an-additional-valuable-contribution-by-rejecting-the/) [John Walford](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/john-walford/) > [The more people talk about eating disorders, the more people get the real story about what they're like.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/scarlett-pomers/the-more-people-talk-about-eating-disorders-the-more-people-get-the/) [Scarlett Pomers](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/scarlett-pomers/) > [You know, entropy is associated thermodynamically, in systems involving heat, with disorder. 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