--- title: "Meaning & Key Takeaway of: This isn't to deny that there were fierce…" description: "\"“This isn't to deny that there were fierce arguments, at the time and ever since, about the causes and goals of both the Civil War and the Second World..." image: "https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/4f6/george-packer-2917_9-11_this-isn-t-to-deny-that-there-were-fierc_2738905.png" --- # This isn't to deny that there were fierce arguments, at… ![“This isn't to deny that there were fierce arguments, at the time and ever since, about the causes and goals of both the Civil War and the Second World War. But 1861 and 1941 each created a common national narrative (which happened to be the victors' narrative): both wars were about the country's…” quote by George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/4f6/george-packer-2917_9-11_this-isn-t-to-deny-that-there-were-fierc_2738905.png) [Download](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/4f6/george-packer-2917_9-11_this-isn-t-to-deny-that-there-were-fierc_2738905.png) [Open image](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/4f6/george-packer-2917_9-11_this-isn-t-to-deny-that-there-were-fierc_2738905.png) > ““This isn't to deny that there were fierce arguments, at the time and ever since, about the causes and goals of both the Civil War and the Second World War. But 1861 and 1941 each created a common national narrative (which happened to be the victors' narrative): both wars were about the country's survival and the expansion of the freedoms on which it was founded. Nothing like this consensus has formed around September 11th… Indeed, the decade since the attacks has destroyed the very possibility of a common national narrative in this country.”” [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) ## About This Quote This interpretation was drafted with AI assistance. It is one reading of the quote, not the author's own explanation. The author argues that unlike earlier wars, post‑9/11 America lacks a unifying story about its purpose and values. **In simple terms:** No shared national story after 9/11. Key Takeaway Seek common values beyond politics. Themes national identity memory political narrative war terrorism Mood reflective critical Type analytical historical When to use this quote - public discourse - education - media analysis - policy making Key Concepts collective memory historical narrative mythmaking Questions to Reflect On - How can societies rebuild shared meaning after trauma? - What role should historians play in shaping narratives? A Different Perspective A single narrative may oversimplify diverse experiences. ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ No ratings yet [Civil war](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/civil-war/) [Consensus](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/consensus/) [Goals](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/goals/) [Second world war](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/second-world-war/) [Time](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/time/) [War](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/war/) [World war](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/world-war/) [World war ii](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/world-war-ii/) ## Related quotes > [ “\[T\]he enduring problem for liberals, as for everyone else, is not whether history will judge them wise or foolish regarding the war on terrorism;… ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/t-he-enduring-problem-for-liberals-as-for-everyone-else-is-not/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [“The attacks of 9/11 were the biggest surprise in American history, and for the past ten years we haven't stopped being surprised. The war…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/the-attacks-of-9-11-were-the-biggest-surprise-in-american-history-and/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [“This malignant persistence since September 11th is the biggest surprise of all. In previous decades, sneak attacks, stock-market crashes, and other great crises became…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/this-malignant-persistence-since-september-11th-is-the-biggest/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [“On the TV and in the newspapers all we hear and read is 'live your life or the terrorists win' and it sounds great,…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/on-the-tv-and-in-the-newspapers-all-we-hear-and-read-is-live-your/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“In total this journey will take five flights and fifty-five hours, but in reality it began four decades and two generations ago when my…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/in-total-this-journey-will-take-five-flights-and-fifty-five-hours-but/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“The last two days I’ve been on long bus rides, driven through the countryside on the back of a motorbike, and crossed rivers on…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/the-last-two-days-i-ve-been-on-long-bus-rides-driven-through-the/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“Military life is hard, even cruel—especially for the kids.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/military-life-is-hard-even-cruel-especially-for-the-kids/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“There are more good people than bad people, and overall there’s more that’s good in the world than there is that’s bad. We just…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/there-are-more-good-people-than-bad-people-and-overall-there-s-more/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“I’m in my classroom and I’m looking at this girl, but all I can see is my dad on the ground, in front of…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/i-m-in-my-classroom-and-i-m-looking-at-this-girl-but-all-i-can-see-is/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“Honestly, I had no idea how to respond. My senior year of college I’d taken a seminar titled Public Education: Situations and Strategies. I…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/honestly-i-had-no-idea-how-to-respond-my-senior-year-of-college-i-d/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“It’d be easy to blame everything on 9/11 or the wars that came after. It’s really about the choices we made. By necessity we…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/it-d-be-easy-to-blame-everything-on-9-11-or-the-wars-that-came-after/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [When you have the national narrative being "crack is awful and black people are using it," why go against that narrative when you want…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/carl-hart/when-you-have-the-national-narrative-being-crack-is-awful-and-black/) [Carl Hart](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/carl-hart/) > [Some write a narrative of wars and feats, Of heroes little known, and call the rant A history.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/william-cowper/some-write-a-narrative-of-wars-and-feats-of-heroes-little-known-and/) [William Cowper](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/william-cowper/) > [“I stood with my mom in the cemetery. She felt terrible pain. My grandmother is with God. My mom has to continue living. It’s…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/i-stood-with-my-mom-in-the-cemetery-she-felt-terrible-pain-my/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“Private-sector preparedness is not a luxury; it is a cost of doing business in the post-9/11 world. It is ignored at a tremendous potential…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/the-9-11-commission-report/private-sector-preparedness-is-not-a-luxury-it-is-a-cost-of-doing/) The 9 11 Commission Report ## More by George Packer > [I don't think they need to be nice to reporters, but the White House seems to imagine that releasing information is like a tap…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/i-don-t-think-they-need-to-be-nice-to-reporters-but-the-white-house/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [So many writers grew up in tortured isolation, in revolt against their families. I and my sister were in a house where writing was…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/so-many-writers-grew-up-in-tortured-isolation-in-revolt-against-their/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Afghanistan can't police its borders, and its neighbors give sanctuary and assistance to insurgents.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/afghanistan-can-t-police-its-borders-and-its-neighbors-give-sanctuary/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Hillary Clinton's such a classic Democratic political figure and believes so much in institutions and in gradualism in the old way of reaching compromises…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/hillary-clinton-s-such-a-classic-democratic-political-figure-and/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [“In other words, Foxx represented what Sarah Palin (speaking at a campaign fundraiser in Greensboro three weeks before the election) called “the real America,”…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/in-other-words-foxx-represented-what-sarah-palin-speaking-at-a/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [America's vast population of working poor can only get so poor before even Walmart is out of reach.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/america-s-vast-population-of-working-poor-can-only-get-so-poor-before/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [The Olympics are never just about sports.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/the-olympics-are-never-just-about-sports/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > ['The Assassins' Gate' is a very tightly controlled story of the ideas that led to the war and the consequences of those ideas in…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/the-assassins-gate-is-a-very-tightly-controlled-story-of-the-ideas/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Amazon's identity and goals are never clear and always fluid, which makes the company destabilizing and intimidating.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/amazon-s-identity-and-goals-are-never-clear-and-always-fluid-which/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Ideology knows the answer before the question has been asked. Principles are something different: a set of values that have to be adapted to…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/ideology-knows-the-answer-before-the-question-has-been-asked/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Everything seems set up for success in digital journalism - money, eyeballs, software, brands.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/everything-seems-set-up-for-success-in-digital-journalism-money/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Climate change joined immigration, job creation, food safety, pilot training, veterans' care, campaign finance, transportation security, labor law, mine safety, wildfire management, and scores…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/climate-change-joined-immigration-job-creation-food-safety-pilot/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [Much of the international unease with the Sochi Games has focused on the threat of terrorism, Putin's domestic repressiveness, and the Russian campaign of…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/much-of-the-international-unease-with-the-sochi-games-has-focused-on/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [I've been interested in American politics since I was eight. That was in 1968. It was an interesting year. I was a huge Eugene…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/i-ve-been-interested-in-american-politics-since-i-was-eight-that-was/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [When I interviewed Paul Bremer in his office, he had almost no books on his shelves. He had a couple of management books, like…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/when-i-interviewed-paul-bremer-in-his-office-he-had-almost-no-books/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) [Explore all 144 George Packer quotes ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) ## More 9-11 quotes > [“Private-sector preparedness is not a luxury; it is a cost of doing business in the post-9/11 world. It is ignored at a tremendous potential…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/the-9-11-commission-report/private-sector-preparedness-is-not-a-luxury-it-is-a-cost-of-doing/) The 9 11 Commission Report > [“I stood with my mom in the cemetery. She felt terrible pain. My grandmother is with God. My mom has to continue living. It’s…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/i-stood-with-my-mom-in-the-cemetery-she-felt-terrible-pain-my/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“A son for a flag is a lot of sacrifice.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/a-son-for-a-flag-is-a-lot-of-sacrifice/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“In Korea I’d been so afraid that Sami would lose her dad. She did, but she didn’t get a flag. He went to Doha,…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/in-korea-i-d-been-so-afraid-that-sami-would-lose-her-dad-she-did-but/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“The sun appeared between the twin spires of the cathedral as its light reflected off the crescent and star that rose out of the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/the-sun-appeared-between-the-twin-spires-of-the-cathedral-as-its/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“The look of a smug teacher is priceless.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/the-look-of-a-smug-teacher-is-priceless/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“I have this thought, it’s horrible, and it makes me sick, but it’s true: one day these students will grow up and have their…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/i-have-this-thought-it-s-horrible-and-it-makes-me-sick-but-it-s-true/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“Many signs point to the fact that the youth of the Third World will no longer tolerate living in circumstances that give them no…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/rom-o-dallaire/many-signs-point-to-the-fact-that-the-youth-of-the-third-world-will/) [Roméo Dallaire](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/rom-o-dallaire/) > [“This is who I was, before I was dead. When I cared, when I was relentless.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/this-is-who-i-was-before-i-was-dead-when-i-cared-when-i-was-relentless/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“It’d be easy to blame everything on 9/11 or the wars that came after. It’s really about the choices we made. By necessity we…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/it-d-be-easy-to-blame-everything-on-9-11-or-the-wars-that-came-after/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“Honestly, I had no idea how to respond. My senior year of college I’d taken a seminar titled Public Education: Situations and Strategies. I…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/honestly-i-had-no-idea-how-to-respond-my-senior-year-of-college-i-d/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“And then, on September 11, the world fractured. It's beyond my skill as a writer to capture that day and the days that would…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/barack-obama/and-then-on-september-11-the-world-fractured-it-s-beyond-my-skill-as/) [Barack Obama](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/barack-obama/) > [“Teaching isn’t rocket science. It’s about being engaged, listening, paying attention. Despite conventional wisdom, you don’t need to talk a lot to teach well.…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tucker-elliot/teaching-isn-t-rocket-science-it-s-about-being-engaged-listening/) [Tucker Elliot](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tucker-elliot/) > [“The attacks of 9/11 were the biggest surprise in American history, and for the past ten years we haven't stopped being surprised. The war…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/george-packer/the-attacks-of-9-11-were-the-biggest-surprise-in-american-history-and/) [George Packer](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/george-packer/) > [“Religion is the most powerful entity on earth. A phenomenon that has conscripted millions to give or sacrifice their lives without so much as…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/cal-sarwar/religion-is-the-most-powerful-entity-on-earth-a-phenomenon-that-has/) Cal Sarwar Browse all 103 9-11 quotes ```json { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@graph": [ { "@type": "Quotation", "text": "“This isn't to deny that there were fierce arguments, at the time and ever since, about the causes and goals of both the Civil War and the Second World War. But 1861 and 1941 each created a common national narrative (which happened to be the victors' narrative): both wars were about the country's survival and the expansion of the freedoms on which it was founded. 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