--- title: "Meaning & Key Takeaway of: To have a discussion about the plusses…" description: "\"To have a discussion about the plusses and minuses of various forms of group action, though, is going to require discussing the current tools and servi..." image: "https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/b43/clay-shirky-3364_action_to-have-a-discussion-about-the-plusses-a_104792.png" --- # To have a discussion about the plusses and minuses of… ![“To have a discussion about the plusses and minuses of various forms of group action, though, is going to require discussing the current tools and services as they exist, rather than discussing their caricatures or simply wishing that they would disappear.” quote by Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/b43/clay-shirky-3364_action_to-have-a-discussion-about-the-plusses-a_104792.png) [Download](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/b43/clay-shirky-3364_action_to-have-a-discussion-about-the-plusses-a_104792.png) [Open image](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/i/b43/clay-shirky-3364_action_to-have-a-discussion-about-the-plusses-a_104792.png) > “To have a discussion about the plusses and minuses of various forms of group action, though, is going to require discussing the current tools and services as they exist, rather than discussing their caricatures or simply wishing that they would disappear.” [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) ## About This Quote This interpretation was drafted with AI assistance. It is one reading of the quote, not the author's own explanation. Evaluating collective action requires examining existing platforms and mechanisms, not just idealized versions or calls for their removal. **In simple terms:** Assess tools, not fantasies. Key Takeaway Practical analysis beats wishful thinking. Themes technology collective action policy platforms analysis Mood analytical pragmatic Type philosophical policy When to use this quote - online community moderation - open‑source governance - social media policy debates Key Concepts systems thinking instrumental rationality Practical Applications - audit current tools - design incremental improvements Questions to Reflect On - What are the hidden affordances of current tools? - How can we redesign without discarding useful features? ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ No ratings yet [Action](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/action/) [Caricatures](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/caricatures/) [Tools](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/tools/) [Wish](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/about/wish/) ## Related quotes > [Group action - yes; group thinking - no](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/norman-lamm/group-action-yes-group-thinking-no/) [Norman Lamm](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/norman-lamm/) > [The major job was getting people to understand that they had something within their power that they could use, and it could only be…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/ella-baker/the-major-job-was-getting-people-to-understand-that-they-had/) [Ella Baker](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/ella-baker/) > [“It is better to purposefully spend time with people talking about things that could improve them or talk about things that could improve me…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/sunday-adelaja/it-is-better-to-purposefully-spend-time-with-people-talking-about/) [Sunday Adelaja](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/sunday-adelaja/) > [We know the "great men" and a handful of heavily cited papers in our specialization. When there is a historical frame around a paper…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/dale-jamieson/we-know-the-great-men-and-a-handful-of-heavily-cited-papers-in-our/) [Dale Jamieson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/dale-jamieson/) > [I just feel as though it's become a situation where people have manifested this caricature of who I am, and they act as if…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/lindsay-lohan/i-just-feel-as-though-it-s-become-a-situation-where-people-have/) [Lindsay Lohan](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/lindsay-lohan/) > [I am an extremely private person. I always feel that I come across as a caricature of myself whenever I do interviews.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/mia-kirshner/i-am-an-extremely-private-person-i-always-feel-that-i-come-across-as/) [Mia Kirshner](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/mia-kirshner/) > [Capitalist exploitation and cartels and monopolies are the enemies of underdeveloped countries. On the other hand a regime which is completely oriented towards the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/frantz-fanon/capitalist-exploitation-and-cartels-and-monopolies-are-the-enemies-of/) [Frantz Fanon](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/frantz-fanon/) > [Your own self, your personality and existence are reflected within the mind of each of the people whom you meet, ... into a likeness,…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/isak-dinesen/your-own-self-your-personality-and-existence-are-reflected-within-the/) [Isak Dinesen](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/isak-dinesen/) > [Zoos are becoming facsimiles - or perhaps caricatures - of how animals once were in their natural habitat. If the right policies toward nature…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/michael-j-fox/zoos-are-becoming-facsimiles-or-perhaps-caricatures-of-how-animals/) [Michael J. Fox](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/michael-j-fox/) > [It's very easy for me to say what success is. I think success is connecting with an audience who understands you and having a…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/lena-dunham/it-s-very-easy-for-me-to-say-what-success-is-i-think-success-is/) [Lena Dunham](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/lena-dunham/) > [51% of the French people - who are not very religious - were thinking that what "Charlie Hebdo" did was unwise. They aren't asking…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tariq-ramadan/51-of-the-french-people-who-are-not-very-religious-were-thinking-that/) [Tariq Ramadan](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tariq-ramadan/) > [ I can hardly believe what these 12 caricatures \[about Prophet Muhammad\] have caused in the world. We Danes feel like we have been placed… ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/anders-fogh-rasmussen/i-can-hardly-believe-what-these-12-caricatures-about-prophet-muhammad/) [Anders Fogh Rasmussen](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/anders-fogh-rasmussen/) > [I have to be careful to get out before I become the grotesque caricature of a hatchet-faced woman with big knockers.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/jamie-lee-curtis/i-have-to-be-careful-to-get-out-before-i-become-the-grotesque/) [Jamie Lee Curtis](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/jamie-lee-curtis/) > [The caricature of science is that we hold tight to the theories we have, and shun challenges to them. That's just not true. In…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/neil-degrasse-tyson/the-caricature-of-science-is-that-we-hold-tight-to-the-theories-we/) [Neil deGrasse Tyson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/neil-degrasse-tyson/) > [ The social \[media channel\] isn't about beauty contests and popularity contests. They're a distortion, a caricature of the real thing. It's about trust, connection,… ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/umair-haque/the-social-media-channel-isn-t-about-beauty-contests-and-popularity/) [Umair Haque](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/umair-haque/) ## More by Clay Shirky > [ “\[N\]ew technology enables new kinds of group-forming.” ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/n-ew-technology-enables-new-kinds-of-group-forming/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [“Mass amateurization of publishing makes mass amateurization of filtering a forced move.”](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/mass-amateurization-of-publishing-makes-mass-amateurization-of/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [“Information sharing produces shared awareness among the participants, and collaborative production relies on shared creation, but collective action creates shared responsibility, by tying the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/information-sharing-produces-shared-awareness-among-the-participants/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [More interesting than thinking about what's possible in 10 years is thinking what's possible now but that no one has built.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/more-interesting-than-thinking-about-what-s-possible-in-10-years-is/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [“Digital networks are increasing the fluidity of all media. The old choice between one-way public media (like books and movies) and two-way private media…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/digital-networks-are-increasing-the-fluidity-of-all-media-the-old/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Even with the sacred printing press, we got erotic novels 150 years before we got scientific journals.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/even-with-the-sacred-printing-press-we-got-erotic-novels-150-years/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Tools get socially interesting after they're no longer technologically interesting.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/tools-get-socially-interesting-after-they-re-no-longer/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Carpooling is important for urban density, air pollution and other reasons, but carpooling is not the kind of thing that actually changes the energy…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/carpooling-is-important-for-urban-density-air-pollution-and-other/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [If what you're doing is valuable for people, they will find a way to pay you to keep doing it.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/if-what-you-re-doing-is-valuable-for-people-they-will-find-a-way-to/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Multi-taskers often think they are like gym rats, bulking up their ability to juggle tasks, when in fact they are like alcoholics, degrading their…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/multi-taskers-often-think-they-are-like-gym-rats-bulking-up-their/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Civic participants don't aim to make life better merely for members of the group. They want to improve even the lives of people who…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/civic-participants-don-t-aim-to-make-life-better-merely-for-members/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [I would not hesitate to say I was addicted to the Internet in the first two years. It can be addictive, and things not…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/i-would-not-hesitate-to-say-i-was-addicted-to-the-internet-in-the/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Bureaucracies temporarily suspend the Second Law of Thermodynamics. In a bureaucracy, it's easier to make a process more complex than to make it simpler,…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/bureaucracies-temporarily-suspend-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics-in/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [The more ideas there are in circulation, the more ideas there are for any individual to disagree with. More media always means more arguing.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/the-more-ideas-there-are-in-circulation-the-more-ideas-there-are-for/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) > [Society is not just the product of its individual members; it is also the product of its constituent groups.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/clay-shirky/society-is-not-just-the-product-of-its-individual-members-it-is-also/) [Clay Shirky](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) [Explore all 132 Clay Shirky quotes ](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/clay-shirky/) ## More Action quotes > [I always say there are two things to be successful. The first is decide exactly what you want - set your goals - and…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/brian-tracy/i-always-say-there-are-two-things-to-be-successful-the-first-is/) [Brian Tracy](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/brian-tracy/) > [You'd be surprised how hard it can often be to translate an action into an idea.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/karl-kraus/you-d-be-surprised-how-hard-it-can-often-be-to-translate-an-action/) [Karl Kraus](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/karl-kraus/) > [Gratitude isn't just a feeling, it's an action. Expressing gratitude by writing in a journal, taking a photo, or shooting a video creates a…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/janice-kaplan/gratitude-isn-t-just-a-feeling-it-s-an-action-expressing-gratitude-by/) [Janice Kaplan](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/janice-kaplan/) > [Nothing is so powerful as an insight into human nature... what compulsions drive a man, what instincts dominate his action. If you know these…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/william-bernbach/nothing-is-so-powerful-as-an-insight-into-human-nature-what/) [William Bernbach](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/william-bernbach/) > [Every thought I have imprisioned in expression I must free by my deeds](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/kahlil-gibran/every-thought-i-have-imprisioned-in-expression-i-must-free-by-my-deeds/) [Kahlil Gibran](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/kahlil-gibran/) > [It took me 20 years to buy an electric typewriter, because I was afraid it would be too sensitive. I like to bang the…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/elmore-leonard/it-took-me-20-years-to-buy-an-electric-typewriter-because-i-was/) [Elmore Leonard](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/elmore-leonard/) > [Every action that helps us manifest our divine nature more and more is good; every action that retards it is evil.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/swami-vivekananda/every-action-that-helps-us-manifest-our-divine-nature-more-and-more/) [Swami Vivekananda](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/swami-vivekananda/) > [As you begin changing your thinking, start immediately to change your behaviour. Begin to act the part of the person you would like to…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/anonymous/as-you-begin-changing-your-thinking-start-immediately-to-change-your/) [Anonymous](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/anonymous/) > [It's easy to say, let's go in and get the bad guys. But you have a divided country of Sunnis and Shias. The United…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/tulsi-gabbard/it-s-easy-to-say-let-s-go-in-and-get-the-bad-guys-but-you-have-a/) [Tulsi Gabbard](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/tulsi-gabbard/) > [For comedy action, I must know the language.](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/sammo-hung/for-comedy-action-i-must-know-the-language/) [Sammo Hung](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/sammo-hung/) > [Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/thomas-jefferson/believing-with-you-that-religion-is-a-matter-which-lies-solely/) [Thomas Jefferson](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/thomas-jefferson/) > [“Action is a powerful thing. When you smile through your sadness, it can completely change your outlook. Try it! Smile :) Now hold onto…](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/leticia-rae/action-is-a-powerful-thing-when-you-smile-through-your-sadness-it-can/) [Leticia Rae](https://sms4smile.com/quotes/author/leticia-rae/) > [I reject criticism because the last thing I wanted was to sit there and look at people talking. 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